Discussion:
[Design] Praise for the mobile site
Steven Walling
2014-08-26 23:30:54 UTC
Permalink
"Wikipedia already looks great ... just add .m (on desktop)"
https://news.layervault.com/stories/31897-wikipedia-already-looks-great--just-add-m-on-desktop

For those unfamiliar, this is a designer's equivalent to Hacker News.
Interesting to see professional UX designers be less forgiving towards the
WikiWand design, in addition to the warm fuzzies from the love for the
mobile site.

This kind of feedback makes me wish you could set your desktop skin to use
mobile (aka Minerva). Or may e have clicking the "mobile view" link set a
cookie for my session to auto-redirect to mobile. Otherwise, it's hard to
evaluate how the mobile view stands up over sustained use on desktop.
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
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Jon Robson
2014-08-26 23:41:19 UTC
Permalink
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.

Although it does come with some caveats...

1) section toggling doesn't get enabled, as result there is no
concept of a lead section, so 'this page has issues' captures every
issue in the page (there may be repeats)
2) You cannot edit anything other than the lead section (linked to above)
3) Special:Watchlist renders as normal desktop version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?useskin=minerva
5) Ugly preferences page rather than Special:MobileOptions (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
4) Special:History unavailable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
5) Ugly preferences page rather than Special:MobileOptions (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Preferences&returnto=Special%3AHistory%2FFranklin+D.+Roosevelt&useskin=minerva
- however this will render more nicely with the MediaWiki UI patch
[1])
6) No uploads link in left menu
7) Talk page link renders but takes you to the standard talk page
8) The footer is different

[1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150635
Post by Steven Walling
"Wikipedia already looks great ... just add .m (on desktop)"
https://news.layervault.com/stories/31897-wikipedia-already-looks-great--just-add-m-on-desktop
For those unfamiliar, this is a designer's equivalent to Hacker News.
Interesting to see professional UX designers be less forgiving towards the
WikiWand design, in addition to the warm fuzzies from the love for the
mobile site.
This kind of feedback makes me wish you could set your desktop skin to use
mobile (aka Minerva). Or may e have clicking the "mobile view" link set a
cookie for my session to auto-redirect to mobile. Otherwise, it's hard to
evaluate how the mobile view stands up over sustained use on desktop.
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
* @rakugojon
Steven Walling
2014-08-26 23:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?

Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
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Jon Robson
2014-08-26 23:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]

[1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
Post by Steven Walling
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
* @rakugojon
Jon Robson
2014-08-26 23:53:59 UTC
Permalink
I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also
registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal...
Post by Jon Robson
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]
[1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
Post by Steven Walling
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
* @rakugojon
Derk-Jan Hartman
2014-08-27 09:02:50 UTC
Permalink
I do note that due to the mobile vs desktop targets of resource loader
behavior, the desktop site seems to have a few problems when using
minerva. I get "ReferenceError: Can't find variable: importScript
global code (index.php, line 14)" when I used the "useskin=minerva" approach.

DJ
Post by Jon Robson
I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also
registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal...
Post by Jon Robson
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]
[1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
Post by Steven Walling
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
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Jon Robson
2014-08-28 22:37:59 UTC
Permalink
I created a bug to capture these issues
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70142

The DJ where are you seeing this exception being thrown? I had thought
that the desktop skin forced the mobile target to avoid these issues
but maybe I am wrong...

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
I do note that due to the mobile vs desktop targets of resource loader
behavior, the desktop site seems to have a few problems when using
minerva. I get "ReferenceError: Can't find variable: importScript
global code (index.php, line 14)" when I used the "useskin=minerva" approach.
DJ
Post by Jon Robson
I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also
registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal...
Post by Jon Robson
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]
[1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
Post by Steven Walling
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
* @rakugojon
Sarah
2014-09-02 06:45:50 UTC
Permalink
One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being
discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to
article talk pages. Am I just missing it?

Sarah
Post by Jon Robson
I created a bug to capture these issues
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70142
The DJ where are you seeing this exception being thrown? I had thought
that the desktop skin forced the mobile target to avoid these issues
but maybe I am wrong...
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
I do note that due to the mobile vs desktop targets of resource loader
behavior, the desktop site seems to have a few problems when using
minerva. I get "ReferenceError: Can't find variable: importScript
global code (index.php, line 14)" when I used the "useskin=minerva"
approach.
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
DJ
Post by Jon Robson
I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also
registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal...
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson at gmail.com>
Post by Jon Robson
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]
[1]
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling <
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson at gmail.com>
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently
you
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to
rectify
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
_______________________________________________
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--
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* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
_______________________________________________
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Steven Walling
2014-09-02 06:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarah
One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being
discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to
article talk pages. Am I just missing it?
Sarah
No, there is not an obvious way for now, though you can of course still use
Search to get to any page.
Post by Sarah
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson at gmail.com
Post by Jon Robson
I created a bug to capture these issues
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70142
The DJ where are you seeing this exception being thrown? I had thought
that the desktop skin forced the mobile target to avoid these issues
but maybe I am wrong...
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman
<d.j.hartman+wmf_ml at gmail.com
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
I do note that due to the mobile vs desktop targets of resource loader
behavior, the desktop site seems to have a few problems when using
minerva. I get "ReferenceError: Can't find variable: importScript
global code (index.php, line 14)" when I used the "useskin=minerva"
approach.
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
DJ
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson at gmail.com
Post by Jon Robson
I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also
registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal...
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson at gmail.com
Post by Jon Robson
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]
[1]
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling <
swalling at wikimedia.org
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jon Robson <jdlrobson at gmail.com
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently
you
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to
rectify
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design at lists.wikimedia.org');>
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
Post by Jon Robson
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
--
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* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
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<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design at lists.wikimedia.org');>
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Jon Robson
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
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<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Design at lists.wikimedia.org');>
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
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* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
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Jon Robson
2014-09-02 06:50:33 UTC
Permalink
The talk pages are purposely not linked to. The main reason is in
current form they render terrible on mobile:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lettuce

You can however get to them via search/watchlist/links on wiki.

Many people have never experienced talk before, various user tests we
have run for both mobile and Winter show most people are surprised
that they can talk about articles. For this reason we're keen to give
them a good first experience. Throwing them on a page with lots and
lots of template is a sure fire way to put any new potential editors
off them for like.

We will need some help from template maintainers to improve that (any
volunteers?! :)) as in current form you have to scroll __a lot__ to
get to the talk content itself

You can enable some experiments with trying to make talk available on
mobile in the beta [1] version of the site.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileOptions
Post by Sarah
One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being
discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to
article talk pages. Am I just missing it?
Sarah
Post by Jon Robson
I created a bug to capture these issues
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70142
The DJ where are you seeing this exception being thrown? I had thought
that the desktop skin forced the mobile target to avoid these issues
but maybe I am wrong...
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Derk-Jan Hartman
Post by Derk-Jan Hartman
I do note that due to the mobile vs desktop targets of resource loader
behavior, the desktop site seems to have a few problems when using
minerva. I get "ReferenceError: Can't find variable: importScript
global code (index.php, line 14)" when I used the "useskin=minerva" approach.
DJ
Post by Jon Robson
I forgot to add if we set $wgMFEnableMinervaBetaFeature = true it also
registers it as a beta feature. Another option at our disposal...
Post by Jon Robson
Only because of a single line of code. We can surface it in
Special:Preferences easily but I suspect we'll want to fix some of the
caveats first... we just have to remove the code here [1]
[1]
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/118037/7/includes/MobileFrontend.hooks.php
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Steven Walling
Post by Steven Walling
Post by Jon Robson
It's actually very trivial to enable Minerva on desktop. Currently you
can do so appending useskin=minerva e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt?useskin=minerva
but we purposely hide it from the preferences. This is easy to rectify
though if you wanted us to.
Yeah but that's not persistent across views right?
Tomasz: thanks for the tip. I'll give it a spin. ;)
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
--
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* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
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* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
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* @rakugojon
Quim Gil
2014-09-02 06:56:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarah
One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being
discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to
article talk pages. Am I just missing it?
See also Bug 52165 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52165> -
Links to talk pages in mobile view
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52165
--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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Sarah
2014-09-02 07:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, Steven, Jon and Quim. The mobile site is uncollapsing the collapsed
templates. If that could be fixed, the talk templates wouldn't be such a
problem. Also, maybe you could create a "skip to discussion" link that
bypasses them.

Sarah
Post by Quim Gil
Post by Sarah
One thing I've noticed about the mobile site, and that I see is being
discussed in various places, is that there's no obvious way to get to
article talk pages. Am I just missing it?
See also Bug 52165 <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52165>
- Links to talk pages in mobile view
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52165
--
Quim Gil
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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Tomasz Finc
2014-08-26 23:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Any it's really interesting to see a chrome extension for a permanent
.m in the store

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/m-wiki/ibnmikddaopgfbbngcgcfmanjfgbcopf/

--tomasz
Post by Steven Walling
"Wikipedia already looks great ... just add .m (on desktop)"
https://news.layervault.com/stories/31897-wikipedia-already-looks-great--just-add-m-on-desktop
For those unfamiliar, this is a designer's equivalent to Hacker News.
Interesting to see professional UX designers be less forgiving towards the
WikiWand design, in addition to the warm fuzzies from the love for the
mobile site.
This kind of feedback makes me wish you could set your desktop skin to use
mobile (aka Minerva). Or may e have clicking the "mobile view" link set a
cookie for my session to auto-redirect to mobile. Otherwise, it's hard to
evaluate how the mobile view stands up over sustained use on desktop.
--
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
_______________________________________________
Design mailing list
Design at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
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